Applying for HST: The Application Process (12 Oct 2022)

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you enjoy listening to career conversations, why not become a member of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh? Our membership provides you with access to the RCPE educational portal in live evening medical updates, and you have options to view the symposia both in person or online. If you would like to learn more about this, please go to the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh website. Hello everyone and welcome to one of our new episodes looking at careers and recruitment. My name is Marilena Gianudi. I am one of the members of the Trainee and Members Committee of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Hello everyone, my name is Hannah Preston. I'm also a member of the Trainees Members Committee based in Edinburgh.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

This episode is going to focus on how we apply for higher specialty training. Now Hannah has just been through this process and we're hoping to use her experiences to date to help guide you with what is to come. So Hannah, I guess why don't we start by you telling us how did you go about preparing for applying for higher specialty training?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah, so I applied for higher specialty training in November last year. So that was November 2021 to start ST4 in August, so August 2022. So it's a longer process of about eight to nine months, I guess, start to end, starting your application to starting your job if you get one. But really, I think you can probably start preparing and should start preparing earlier for that. So I guess the first thing I did was make sure that my Oreo account was valid because Oreel updated in 2020. So you need to make sure that you have got an Oreo account because that is where all of your applications will go through. And you can open an account at any stage. So I would say just go to Oriole, create an account, or make sure yours works, and then at least that's one kind of stress out of the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Okay. And then how did you actually go about applying using Oreol?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Once you'd created your account, I actually then utilize the higher specialty website. So that's the physician higher specialty training recruitment. I think we're going to put some of the links up in the show notes. And from that, I looked at last year's timeline. So I looked at the 2021 timeline to give me a rough idea of when jobs will come out. And that was kind of November time. And I know they update that fully kind of in the early autumn of each year. So the 2023 recruitment isn't up yet, but you can see the 2022 recruitment timeline, which I think gives you a good overall picture of roughly when job application window will be open, which is about a three-week window, when your long listing, short listing might be, and then interviews, etc.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So you kind of use that to have an overall idea. And then were you applying just for one specialty option or did you apply for multiple?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I applied for just one. So I applied for renal medicine, but I have friends who applied for multiple and you can apply for multiple jobs. So it's worth looking on the PHST recruitment website to look under each specialty. And I would say make sure that you have looked at the person specification early on, and you can find it under each heading, and it shows you about planning your application. So it'll look at whether you're a group one or a group two specialty, and it will look at your interview dates, and it may or may not say how many posts are available. It didn't actually say how many posts were available last year. But to be honest, I would say if you want a job in that area, then there is no harm in applying because I wouldn't take that number for granted. Sometimes jobs will be created and late on. So if it says in the region that you want to apply for that there isn't a job, but you do want to go for the specialty, I would just go for it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

And then could you remember back to the process of actually filling in the application for I guess for you renommed some?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Yeah, so when the vacancies come out, you've then, as I said, you've got this kind of three-week window where you can apply. So Oriel splits it up into five station sections. So you get little headings which say apply, long list, short list, interview, and offer. So if we look at the apply section, this then breaks down further into three different parts. So part one, you can definitely get sorted out early and actually before the application process actually opens. And I would always recommend having a Word document for your applications where you can save stuff and jot things down. So part one would be things like your personal information, equality and diversity, and then employment history. So you need to go back from when you started working. So it's useful to get your diary out, get a piece of paper, and write down what job you did and when you did it, what the dates were. So for example, I did my FY1 job in 2015, August to December at the Western General Hospital in Acute and General Medicine. And you need to go through each block. And you also need to identify and put the time dates in for any gaps you've had in your training as well. So that's part one. So you can actually start getting the details of part one quite early on. And it's these little nitty-gritty bits that take time, but you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, definitely. If you have gaps in training, is it quite self-explanatory as to how you would fill in those gaps and what you need to do?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yes, yeah, it says it all in there. So there's white box, there's white box text. So I had a year out after my F2 year. It's like, have you had any gaps in training? And then I just filled in the dates that I had my gaps in training, which was after F2 and before I started ACCS.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Great. Okay. So then after all those, as you said, nitty-gritty bits are done with, what was part two of the application?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

So part two is still a bit of an informative area. So that includes references. So I needed three references. I think one of them has to be your most recent educational supervisor. And then you need to identify two others. But I feel that it's important that you get in touch with the people that you would want to do your reference or need to do your reference early on and warn them and ask them, would it be okay if I could use you as a reference for this job I'm applying? Out of courtesy, really, because also later down the line, they are used if you get an offer, they then need to reply to an email about the offer. So they need to be aware that an email might come to them. So three references: there's a fitness to practice section, there's a section which is Tickbox section of whether you, by the end of the point in your job and taking on the new job, have you completed all your competencies and then a declaration section. So that's part two, really.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

So that's pretty self-explanatory, I guess. So a part three is that where you actually need to sit down and answer questions about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Yeah. So part three comes into, I guess, what most people would call kind of the real application section. And this takes time. So if you know that you have got a busy, I think regardless, to be honest, we've all got busy lives, but I think if you know you've got a busy end of November, it was for me. If you've got a busy time or you've got nights, look at the timeline and you can start filling in these sections early. So this is the self-scoring system and the supporting evidence section and commitment to specialty. And a lot of this information about this is found again on the Physician Higher Specialty Training Recruitment website. And you go into the recruitment process and you can go into applying. And there's a section which is on the application form and it's on the self-scoring system. But this is really where, and again, you can do this early start thinking about what you can score for. And actually, if you look early enough, where there are gaps that you might be able to fill and boost your points, but also it gives you a time to be like, oh, I need to go and find evidence for X, Y, and Z. I need to go and make sure that I've got my undergraduate degree certificate, that if I've got a postgraduate degree, I've also got that certificate. Have I got evidence of teaching, or do I need to contact someone to write a letter to say I've done X, Y, and Z because the evidence is vital. And actually, sorting all of that early is really worthwhile and saves a lot of stress if you're coming up to the deadline and someone hasn't got back to you, as always, with everything like early preparation, gives you a really good foot in the door going forward. It's a section on your self-scoring system. So at the moment, that comprises sections of your undergraduate, postgraduate, achievements and prizes, presentations, publications, QI, teaching, and leadership. And as I said, we won't go into the actual what's worth what point. That is all on the website, which gives you a good breakdown. And then what you need to do is for your supporting evidence, there are white text boxes which are between 25 and 100 words each to write down your supporting evidence for that. And actually, I found that the really tricky part because 100 words is actually not a lot of words. So you end up needing to look at your grammar and looking at your ands, ifs, or buts. So this is the time for me that took the longest was really getting across your reasoning and your passion and your desire for your job into those small white text boxes.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And then when you had to upload evidence to support what you were writing in those boxes, could you upload multiple pieces of evidence? So multiple certificates or letters from consultants clarifying that what you have said is true, or is it just one piece of evidence?

SPEAKER_00 10:12

So what gets you the most points? Upload. If you have got an oral presentation at a national conference, that's going to get you maximum points for the presentation section, upload that. And it doesn't need to be relevant to the specialty that you're applying with. So that it seems somehow a bit counterintuitive, but look at the points. So whatever gets the most points, upload. And they actually don't want you to upload other stuff. So you just upload what gets you your bang for your buck, essentially. There is then a section on commitment to specialty where you again have a white text box and you can write about your commitment to specialty so far. So that might be that you've attended courses or conferences or you've been to clinics. Again, it's not a very big section. So you need to take time and write something succinctly. And each specialty uses it differently. Some specialties will use it within their point system. And Renal did this year, but other specialties won't. And it is made clear on the website under each specialty section which specialties will use this. And just one last thing, make sure that none of your supporting evidence or the words that you write have any patient identifiable information on them.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

And I guess just very quickly thinking about the different specialties, it might be worthwhile us just quickly telling our listeners who should be thinking about applying for high specialty training depending on the specialty that they want to go into. So anybody that's finishing IMT training in the UK, you need to think about your specialty going forward and whether you would fall into a group one or a group two specialty. Group one specialties you would need to apply for when you complete three years of IMT, whereas for group two specialties, it would be you could apply for high special training after two years of IMT training. I do appreciate that's a bit of a slant from where we were, but I think it's really important to clarify that so you're not caught out. So group two specialties are allergy medicine, aviation medicine, clinical genetics, neurophysiology, dermatology, hematology, immunology, infectious diseases when you're going to do infectious diseases with either microbiology or virology, oncology, ophthalmology, nuclear medicine, pediatric cardiology, pharmaceutical medicine, rehabilitation medicine, and sports and exercise medicine all come under group two specialties. So if you're considering of applying for higher specialty training for one of those, please you're going to need to do this even earlier than your counterparts that want to do any of the other medical specialties around.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

I think the other thing that we also need to mention that has recently changed is that you need to have your MRCP. So you need to have done your PACES for the 2023 recruitment, has to be done by the time you get an offer, which has changed. So that is roughly April to May 2023. So if you're thinking of working out when to do your PACES exam and you're planning on applying next year, then you really want to think about the autumn diet and again the early start of the 2023, if you haven't already done so.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

And certainly if you're thinking of applying to PACES and your a job would be on the line based on you sitting the exam, it's really important that you disclose that at the time of applying for PACES.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So if I could fear us a little bit back on track, you completed your Oreal application in that way. And then is it just a case of being long listed then shortlisted? How did you know the rest of the process work for you?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yeah, so I applied, as I said, kind of mid-November. I've got my Oreo open now. I started my application on the 18th of November and I submitted it on the 30th of November. And then long listing happens. So that essentially works out whether you're eligible for a job. And that happened in January. And then shortlisting occurs, and it's all at variable stages, timeline stages for this. So I wouldn't put an exact time figure, but in the new year. And then shortlisting will happen. And with that, you get your shortlist score. So that's based on, you know, those stations that we talked about, the undergraduate, postgraduate achievements, etc., etc. And for Renal, they used the commitment to specialty. So that was included into the score. And actually, you can get two points for organization. So that's things like making sure that you've uploaded just the relevant information and that you have named it correctly and it's all organized, I guess, because this is all online now rather than face-to-face. At the moment, you used to get points for a well-formatted physical portfolio. So it's, I guess, it's basically transcribing that into an online format. I've got my shortlisting score and the rank. And then you will later find out whether or not you have an interview. And I know we're going to do a separate episode on interviews, but interviews next year will remain online.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

It's good to know. And definitely good so people can, you know, get preparing this completely different set of skills, I think, that you need to come across while interviewing online compared to face-to-face. And then after the interviews, I guess you get your offer and then you're good to start working.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah, so the offers tend to come out around April, May time. Again, there's a bit of a variation between specialties. So it's really important to kind of read through the documents on the higher specialty website to get an understanding of what happens if you get an offer in one and you're waiting on the other, etc. I think we could talk about that for a long time. But there is a lot of detailed advising in the offers and beyond section of the website.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

And I guess if anyone's ever struggling, there's always people that you can ask. There are contact us details on the websites, but also clinical and educational supervisors are actually quite helpful in these situations, I think. So if you're ever stuck, then it's definitely worth asking because you wouldn't want to be caught out of potentially the job that you want to go for.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Definitely. And you know, there's registrars who are years above you, people around you in your hospital, there's always people that have been through this process, and everyone's more than happy to kind of chat through things, even if it's, you know, just a bit of reassurance, you know, have I done this right? I got someone to read through my white space text, my application, which was really useful, I think, to get someone from a different perspective to read it. Because I think, you know, when you spend hours looking over the same sentence or the same paragraph, your mind kind of goes a bit fuzzy. So getting someone's outside opinion, I think is really valuable.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. And that's certainly something that I did. And sometimes it's good to even give it to someone who is within your specialty or the specialty that you're applying to, and also someone that has nothing to do with that specialty, and then you can get that really objective feedback that you might need in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

100%. And I think often we're not very good at selling ourselves. So someone I got someone to read it that I knew but wasn't in a specialty, and you know, they were like, Oh, but you've also done X, Y, and Z. Why haven't you mentioned that? And you're like, Oh, yeah, well, I didn't really think of that. So it's crazy, but it's your one time to really show, right? I've done this, this, and this. You need to put it onto, I was gonna say paper, you need to put it onto the online platform to be able to give it justice because you've spent time on it. So make sure that it's valued for what it's worth.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah, I completely agree there. And Hannah, do you know anything about round two of apply the high specialty training?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So, round two, it's a similar process. It runs very similarly. However, not all specialties participate. So you would need to have a look on the recruitment website and they will post whether or not they've filled in round one or whether they have subsequently got spaces available. Again, the timeline for round two gets published on the website. So this year it was July, so mid-July. Specialty advertisements were published, applications were open or are open um kind of end of July to mid-August, and then interviews tend to be September, October time with offers end of October, and then I guess posts are kind of in the new year, the January, February starts.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

So I guess that's also good for our listeners to know that if you are unsuccessful the first time, then it's always good keeping an eye on the higher education website for potential round two options because that can also really help you out.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Absolutely. And I think we're going to cover the offers and beyond bit after the interview episode that we do, and we can kind of touch more about replying to offers and what to do if you don't get the offer you want, etc.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, yeah. So that's all to come. So please stick with us. We hope that you'll find this useful as a way of preparing for applying and we will keep coming back to you with more information and more guidance, hopefully.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Yeah, so just the kind of token message I would say is look earlier than you think you need to, just so that you're not panicking at the last two days or you find out that you're on night shifts or you're away at a wedding. Take the time. It's important to the earlier you start, I think the more relaxed and streamlined the process can be.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

And there have been situations where Oreel has crashed just before the deadline and you don't want to be in that position with a broken system and not being able to apply for a job. Exactly, definitely. So I guess I'd just like to say thank you to everyone for listening. We hope you found it useful and please stay tuned for our next episodes to come.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, so the next one will be on interviews. But if you also have any friends or colleagues who are applying to IMT, then we also have an episode on the application for the IMT process. So let them know if that episode would suit them. Thank you so much. Thank you.