Applying for IMT: The Application Process (13 Oct 2022)

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you enjoy listening to career conversations, why not become a member of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh? Our membership provides you with access to the RCPE educational portal with live evening medical updates, and you have options to view the symposia both in person or online. If you would like to learn more about this, please go to the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh website. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Career Conversations brought to you by the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. My name is Dr. Marilena Giannudi, and I am a cardiology registrar and a member of the Training and Members Committee. Today we are joined by Dr. Gabby Woodward Smith, who's an IMT2 doctor based in West Yorkshire. This is one of our new strand of episodes looking at careers and recruitment. So in this episode, we're going to go through the IMT application, and Gabby is going to share her experiences with us having just applied last year. So Gabby, welcome and thank you for joining me. No problem. So you obviously applied for IMT last year. Can you please tell me a bit about the process kind of at the start whilst you were planning your application?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, so at the start, I think the first thing I did was sort of look at the timeline for things, which you can get off the IMT website just so I could kind of work out when I needed to start applying and make a note of all the important dates for the application that I was going through. And then kind of from there looked at how you actually apply, which is through the Oriel website, and then kind of made an account on there to kind of start the application process.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Okay. And how long did you give yourself to actually complete the application?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I think I gave myself maybe I think I created the account and then I had maybe a month before the deadline to kind of get everything in. But I tried to get it done sooner than the deadline, just so I knew it was all sorted and submitted. But I gave myself a bit of time to kind of make sure that the application was okay and I'd kind of filled everything incorrectly before I submitted it.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Okay. And then with regards to the application, you said it's all done via Oriel. Is that right? Okay. And is that something that everyone needs to create a new account for? Or how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, I think I had to create a new account because my previous account, so if you'd applied for foundation programme in the UK, that also uses Oriel. But I think my previous application was done through my university email address. So my account had been deleted. So I had to kind of start again, create a new account and go from there. But the website on the whole is quite easy to follow and quite self-explanatory. And like I say, if you've done foundation training in the UK, then a lot of people will be familiar with website for applying anyway.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Okay. And just for our listeners, I will make sure that you have a link for the Aurora website for this podcast. So, Gabby, you obviously created the account, and then how is the application actually laid out?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

So it's laid out in sections. I think there's sort of five major sections of the application in total. So on the website, you have to search for the IMT application and then kind of start from there. And then it's laid out in sections. So I think the first section was just a bit about personal information and employment history, where you'd worked before, what jobs you'd done in foundation or equivalent, and also if you'd had any time out of training, what you'd done in that time. So that was that kind of first section. And then there was a section about references, previous training issues, anything you've had issues with, you could put all that in a section as well. And then the main section was kind of your supporting information, which sort of aligned with the points system for IMT recruitment.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Okay. So are those the so-called white space questions? The ones with the main section that you're talking about, is that something that you had to complete by answering questions?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yes. So there was a few bits which aligned exactly with the points scoring. So you had to then fill in the box what you'd done with regards to that point. So, for example, for any additional qualifications you'd had for undergraduate degrees or otherwise, there was a box below that to say what you'd done, what you'd been awarded in that degree, and how that had kind of helped through your medical training and medical career.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Okay. And with regards to those questions, did you have to upload evidence with that as well?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah, so there was a separate website, I think, for uploading evidence. It wasn't uploaded through Oriel. The website for uploading evidence was separate, but we were emailed a link to that by the application team and then had to upload everything onto this separate website that linked with Oriel account.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Okay. And with the evidence that you had to upload, did you have to upload, for example, if you've done five presentations, did you have to upload evidence of every single one of those presentations, or was it just one piece of evidence per domain that was being marked?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

I think I uploaded a few different bits of evidence. So I think for the teaching domain, for example, I think I uploaded a few different certificates to say that I've been involved in teaching because I think I mentioned a few different ones on the application form.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Um, so I think I just uploaded things that I've mentioned. And if there were other stuff, I didn't bother uploading that. I just kind of focused on what I put in the application and matched it to that.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Right. Okay, yeah. And I guess here is very important that anyone who is planning to apply for IMT should keep looking back at the website again. I'll post the link because what each job looks for will change from year on year. There were certainly changes last year. So it's really good to just keep an eye on the latest requirements that are needed of you. Definitely. Gabby, do you have any tips for kind of completing the white space questions?

SPEAKER_00 5:56

I think just take a bit of time and also mention to me, which really helped, was I sort of copied out the questions onto a separate Word document. So for people who aren't as familiar with Oriel, it times you out after I think an hour. But obviously, there's quite a lot of questions, and you can probably spend about an hour on each page starting to fill things in. But if you haven't saved it in that time, then you lose everything. So for me, writing it all out on a Word document really helped, and then kind of copying it across when it came to it. But just take a bit of time. You've only got a limited number of words in each section. So you have to be quite concise and quite specific, but also try and sell yourself at the same time. So it did take me a bit longer to fill in those white space questions than any other part of the application.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Did you discuss your questions with anyone? Did you ask for people to kind of have a look at your white space questions?

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, so I ran them past my partner who was also applying for a different training program and kind of asked if he could read through it to make sure it all made sense. And I think that's kind of useful for anything, really. I always like to get somebody else to sort of proofread something that I'm uploading just to make sure there's no obvious spelling errors or, you know, sometimes I repeat words that I've not noticed. I think it's always useful to get a fresh pair of eyes to look at things just to make sure it all makes sense and that you kind of have answered the question.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, I remember when I was applying, I definitely gave it to a few different people just to get their opinions. Yeah. And I think it's important to give it to someone who's not necessarily from your specialty as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Or the specialty that you're applying.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, and they can kind of relate things differently, I think, as well, then because if they're looking at a different specialty training program, then they're not necessarily gonna know exactly what IMT want, and then they can kind of make their own judgment on what you've answered.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you completed all of the Oreal application and that got sent off. Yeah. And then was there a period where obviously you had to wait and then were you long listed for the job, or how does it work after the application?

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, so you've loaded everything, you get all your evidence submitted to go along with the application. And then as long as you meet the minimum requirements for that year, you get long listed. I can't remember exactly what that was. I think a lot of it is just whether you've met the requirements in terms of your previous training. And as long as you've kind of met that bit, then you get long listed for the job from there. And then from that point on, I think they then start going through all your evidence and your answers to the white space questions to decide whether you're shortlisted for interview or not.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then after that, you obviously have an interview, which we won't cover today because we will have a separate episode on the interview process and how to prepare for the interview. But how did it work once you were offered a job? Was that Oriel? And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So again, that came through Aurel. So you were emailed to say that you've been offered a job, but you it's then quite daunting because you are then given a list of all of the IMT jobs across the whole of the country, which is obviously quite a long list. So you get a list of all the different jobs everywhere, but initially it's broken down into the deaneries that you want to apply for, and then you kind of get the jobs released from there. So as soon as you get an offer, the first thing you need to decide is where you want to apply and kind of pick your deaneries and rank your deaneries. And then once you're given an allocated deanery, you then get a list of the jobs within that deanery.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Right. Okay. And then do you have to rank every single job available within that deanery, or can you just rank the jobs that you would be interested in?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

So yeah, I think you don't have to rank everything if you don't want to. But if you don't rank jobs, then you're just randomly allocated ones at the bottom if you got that deaner. So I think even though I knew there were jobs within West Yorkshire that I didn't want, I ended up ranking all of the ones within West Yorkshire just so that I had some sort of idea of where it would have been within my preferences. Um, but it's not a necessity. You don't have to rank everything. If there's only a few jobs that you're interested in, you can just rank those.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Okay. And then so you rank the jobs, and again, that's all done through Aureal.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

And then I guess you just wait for a period of time and then you found out which job you have.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah. So it's a lot of waiting. I found for a lot of the applications, sort of the times between long list, short list, interview, and offer, there was a lot of waiting in between. So yeah, you then rank all of your jobs, and then you've got sort of, I think it gives you a time frame. I can't remember exactly what it was off the top of my head, but once you're offered the job, it kind of tells you how long you've got to rank your preferences and make sure they're all submitted by. And then after they're all submitted, you've then got another sort of couple of days' wait to find out exactly what job you want. And again, that gets released to you through Aurel.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Okay. So I guess it's just about familiarising yourself with Oriel and actually really knowing what jobs you would be interested in applying for. Yeah. And obviously that's going to be different for everybody, but how did you make your decision with regards to ranking the jobs? Because I can imagine it's quite overwhelming when you're in that position to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, there's quite a lot to go through. I think for me, I knew there were certain jobs that I wanted during my IT years that I hadn't already worked in. And I was kind of thinking, sort of going forward and being a medical registrar in the future, I'd like to have a bit of a broader base and make sure I covered all the main specialties. So I had a look and filtered jobs based on the ones that I wanted and ranked them higher than ones that didn't include them and kind of tried to do it that way. So having some sort of process makes it a bit easier. So I think, for example, I wanted a renal job because I'd never worked in renal. So I kind of filtered all of the ones that had renal in and then sort of went from there and had a look at what other jobs they were in and ranked it according to what I enjoyed in the other groups.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Right. Okay. And obviously with IMT, everyone now must have an ICU placement and geriatrics placement. Yeah. Can you see where that would lie within the job that you're applying for? Or during the time that you see the jobs on the application, is it just the specialties that you would be choosing to go into?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

No, so you can see the elderly and the ICU blocks in there as well. So you get a list, they sort of split into, I think different deaneries do it slightly differently. In West Yorkshire, there's six jobs you rotate every four months, like you did in the foundation programme. I think some deaneries do it slightly differently where you have a bit less time on intensive care, but you can see where that would slot in. So all of them include for West Yorkshire anyway, all of them included elderly and intensive care, and then you had all other jobs sort of floating around, whether they were in the middle or either side. So I kind of looked at those in terms of preferencing, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah. Okay, that's great. And what would be, you know, your advice for anyone thinking about applying for IMT, both with regards to actually getting the application done, but also with regards to what it's like to be an IMT doctor?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

I think in terms of getting the application done, definitely familiarising yourself with the timeline. So I know I went through that quite a lot and put dates in my diary and set reminders on my phone to make sure that I hit all of those deadlines to get the application in. And definitely leave yourself enough time to complete all those white space questions because, like I said earlier, they do take a bit more thinking, especially for me, because due to COVID, my interview got cancelled. So actually, those white space questions were used instead of my interview. So I think making sure that you've answered those as best you can is probably quite important with regards to the application.

unknown 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

And then in terms of being an IMT, I guess it is good. I enjoyed having jobs that I wanted, but I don't think it necessarily matters all that much. So I think yes, preferencing is good. And if you can get a job that you think you want or job that you want experience in, that's good. But you know, you're on call a lot, you float around different departments while you're on calls, you actually get a lot of experience in all of the specialties, regardless of what job you get. I think it was nice to do the jobs that I thought I wanted that actually didn't really make a huge amount of difference during INT one in the grand scheme of things.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Yeah, and I think that's a really important take-home message, actually, because we can all be quite upset if we don't get our top ranked choices and if we think that, you know, it's going to have a long-lasting effect on our career. But ultimately, medicine is medicine. Yeah. Unless you're going to go into a group two specialty, you're going to have to be a medridge. So actually having very broad knowledge is very useful. And IMT is set up specifically to give you the knowledge that you would need to be a good medridge.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. And I think, you know, even you know, in elderly medicine, for example, and everybody has to do that, you see a lot of all different specialties, and you get experience dealing with all different sort of emergencies just in that specialty. So even if you didn't have a cardiology job, you're probably going to come across cardiology during one of your other rotations anyway.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Okay, now I'm just a little bit conscious that I mentioned about group one and group two specialties. For anyone that's not aware, group one specialties are those in which to progress from IMT to higher specialty training, you would need to complete three years of IMT. And group two specialties, you would apply the high specialty training after two years of IMT. If you want to familiarize yourself more with this, then you can do that on the high special training website. And again, I'll make sure that there are links available for that with this podcast. I think we've actually covered quite a lot of the application process today, Gabby. So thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me. We will continue with this podcast series and we will have more podcasts on preparing yourself for the interview on what to do with regards to confirming your choices of job or if you know you're thinking about changing jobs. So please stay tuned. But for now, I guess the only thing I have to do is thank you so much for your time, Gabby.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

No, thanks for having me.