Teaching Fellow Jobs (01 Mar 2023)

SPEAKER_02 0:00

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SPEAKER_00 0:41

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SPEAKER_03 2:35

No problem. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

So, Johnny, let's start with you. Although I think you were teaching fellows at the same time, what is a teaching fellow job like?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

We actually shared an office. Um, a teaching fellow job essentially is time out of training to have your own space and really to have a really satisfying quality of life, which is quite nice. I don't know if that's more of an indictment of training, but essentially what I really took away from my teaching fellow years, because I did two of them, just like Rob, was that we had at least in our time the same group of students all the way through a year. And we took them through the year doing various different Newcastle University modules and got them through finals. And that was really rewarding experience. But there are teaching fellow jobs of all kinds. Some are specially specific, some are generic, some are full-time teaching, some have a little bit of teaching, a little bit of clinical time, some are teaching fellow jobs only in name. So there's a real variety out there, but it's certainly more popular than it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

And Rob, when did you guys do your teaching fellow jobs? At what stage of training were you at?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

So we did our teaching fellow jobs at the end of foundation. So it was, you know, what we'd call an F3 year and then also became an F4 year. So kind of between foundation and then core training, which I think was very attractive, certainly for me, because you know, foundation is hard work and particularly the portfolio is a lot of work. So it was quite nice to have a bit of freedom and the opportunity to pursue my own interests rather than just having to tick things off a curriculum. And also I wasn't entirely ready to go on to the next stage of my career and go into core training, and I wasn't entirely sure what kind of training pathway I was going into. So it also provided a very nice opportunity to kind of reflect and take stock and make some decisions about where I wanted to go.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

And is it something that you need to plan in advance? Because I gather that most people apply for training in October, November time. Is there a set time of the year that teaching fellow jobs come out, or is it more kind of trust and hospital specific?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So I think it's quite trust and hospital specific. I think certainly historically they used to advertise a lot of teaching fellow posts after people might have heard about the outcome of training program applications. But I think as teaching fellow posts becoming increasingly popular and increasingly competitive, but actually they're bringing that forward. So if it's something you're interested in, then it's definitely worth having a little look at what your trust or nearby trusts are doing, having a chat with some of the teaching fellows there and finding out when the jobs might be advertised because it is different.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

And Johnny, you mentioned that you had this group of students and you saw them from the start of the year all the way up to passing finals. So what kind of teaching were you doing? Was it a lot of clinical skills, or was it actually getting down to the nitty-gritty of, I don't know, physiology, I assume no anatomy?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

I mean, if I'd been teaching them anatomy, I certainly wouldn't be seeing them through passing finals because they would have all failed if I passed an app. So we had quite a bit of freedom in South Shields, South Townside with our students because, yes, of course, we had the set modules from when our students came, but we were really given free reign as to how we delivered those. So we essentially got to not create a whole new curriculum, but really map out how that was going to be delivered in our own sessions. So we kind of divided it up between the two of us, got other people in to help. And because this was an F3 year and was our first real stab at doing all this full time, we decided to do a lot of kind of creative stuff. So our first module, which we did was the, I don't know if they still do it in Newcastle, was called Preparing for Practice. So it's one of those modules which historically might have been done a bit before Christmas and been a bit more chill, but we tried to make it engaging and interactive for students. So we did like a mock cause analysis session, which taught them all about human factors, which was good fun. We got them to do ready-made cases at the practice their clinical reasoning using like half-filled out clinical clerking documents, which was great fun. So we had a great time in just putting these resources together. So it took a lot of preparation, but the payoff was really good. And then first module as a blueprint for what we did for our final year's sort of final medicine rotation, which we had the same group of students for later in the year. And we adapted these ready-made cases to make them more finals friendly. And then we got to really almost coach and mentor the students through finals and through like their long-case practice exams. We got them to write their own MCQs so they could practice amongst each other, essentially write their own papers because a bit of evidence that's good. And it was really satisfying because we got to essentially be educational supervisors pretty early on, which isn't an opportunity that you're afforded otherwise until you're a consultant.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Now that sounds quite intense, if you don't mind me saying, because I don't know whether this is just the teaching fellow job that you were at, but it sounds like actually, other than the basic curriculum points, the university just kind of let you go off and teach in your own way, as opposed to having set either cases or documents that they wanted you to go through with the students. Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Well, we had learning outcomes and everything. And of course, I would say that you know we we had a not just the previous years, but multiple years, previous presentations.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

And sessions. So source material was there if we wanted to do something quickly and easily. I think it was more that we had the opportunity to do something different. So we bit, whereas in other, even within Newcastle University, other base units, but I know it's certainly teaching fellows in other regions have much more prescriptive sessions where they said this is exactly what you have to teach in this time, which is fine. Different things suit different people.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

I think that that was one of the really nice things about that teaching fellow post was it actually allowed us to use a bit of creativity because I think medicine is often very protocolised and perhaps sometimes a little defensive at times. Actually being able to do something quite creative was brilliant and use our imaginations. And I think also the students really enjoyed that as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

And because of how much effort you guys put into those two years, had you had any previous experience in teaching, or was it literally just, I think this will be useful. So this is what I'm going to do. Do you think you need prior teaching experience?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Teaching experience is helpful. And I think we were both lucky enough to have done quite a lot of near-peer teaching at medical school. But I don't think it's something that you have to have done a lot of. And I think most teaching fellow posts have quite a lot of support built in from other clinicians and consultants and people with more experience to help support you and guide you through that.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

I know that with some teaching fellow jobs, you can have the opportunity to do a postgraduate certificate in medical education. Is that something that you guys did? Is it something that you've found useful if you did it? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, loved it. So teaching fellow jobs should offer you a paid opportunity to do the PG stert in MedEd. And if they're not offering you that, then you should reconsider taking the job because that's worth three grand or thereabouts. And it's an opportunity for you to have approved study leave to go and think about the scholarship behind teaching, and that will improve your teaching, undoubtedly, especially classroom teaching at first, then use the certificates, then take you through bedside teaching in a kind of a sequential way. And then the different programs at different universities often then have a kind of a third module, which can vary from curriculum design to assessment to other things. So I enjoy the certificate, I would say. When we did our second teaching fellow year, I did my diploma, and that's when I really decided actually, hang on, I really enjoy mededs as a science. And I don't know if Rob agrees, but we had that kind of penny drop moment where I think, ah, hang on, this all makes sense. The science behind this makes sense and it's really enjoyable. So I then went on to do my master's. I finished my master's last year because I had to delay while I did IMT, and Rob did his a year or so before. So the Teaching Fellow job, as well as being a satisfying year in terms of the practice of teaching, it really started my career in terms of medical education research, which is something I want to continue for the rest of my career.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

I think what I would say about the PG Cert is whilst I found it absolutely fascinating, really enjoyed it and obviously used it as a springboard to finish my master's, it wasn't necessarily what I was expecting. And I think quite a few people I've spoken to have said that. They had assumed it might be a bit more of a practical tips and expertise in delivering teaching. Whereas I think the qualification is a bit more about, as Johnny was saying, the underlying science and the underlying academia behind it, with a view to kind of encouraging you and training you to do your own medical education research. So I think that's probably an important thing to flag to people who are considering doing this, that it is perhaps a bit more academic and scientific than you may think.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

And I think we all just need to focus on the fact that it is a science. And even if it's not something that you want to go forward and do from an academic point of view, I think it's really interesting to know, you know, exams are set in this way because the science shows us that I test you properly if we do it in this way. You know, this is why we do single best answers, this is why we do multiple choice, this is why clinical exams are the way they are. Because I think unless you know about that and you fully understand that, you don't really appreciate why you're being tested even as you go further on in your career.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Absolutely. It's a way to understand the complicatedness of the postgraduate medical education world and the undergraduate medical education world. What's interesting is that quite a lot of the stuff that we do in the postgrad world, as opposed to the undergrad, is not particularly all that evidence-based and not all that underpinned by science. And by having that grounding in the theory, you can better identify where research and practice do not meet and then be better equipped to fix that.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

And obviously, you guys have both gone on from your PG cert to do the masters. If we very quickly just take a detour from teaching fellow jobs, what do you think you've gained from doing the masters in medical education? Why did you want to take it that one step further?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

So I think there's probably a few reasons for that. One is having a sense of seeing something through to its conclusion and getting the satisfaction from that. Another was it was actually genuinely interesting and I think was quite informative of my practice. And as Johnny was saying, kind of understanding the landscape of kind of education around you and enabling you to perhaps challenge some of the practice that's in place because you have a better understanding of the science and the research underpinning what should be done. And then perhaps thinking a bit more mercenarily about it is that it is very good for applications. It's very good for in just terms of the points you get for it on applications, but also in terms of, you know, more broadly speaking, your CV. And also it can be a springboard to getting things published or presenting at conferences. So I think it is a great opportunity across the board and was just a really interesting opportunity. And it was great to kind of go back to a more dedicated learning environment rather than doing things a bit more, you know, off the cuff and on the hoof, as a lot of teaching and training sometimes is in our day-to-day jobs.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

I also think that if you haven't had that experience of starting a research project, designing it, going through the ethical approval, the delays and challenges that we face it and seeing it through and writing it up, the master is a great opportunity to do that. Even if you don't want to go into academia, most people end up doing a bit of research at some point in their careers. So having a master's gives you great experience and the knowledge that you can do that. I enjoyed having the space to be able to look into the subject matter I was interested in in great depth and essentially feel at the end like I am I'm essentially a world expert in this because I've just done a master's in it.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Yeah. And you both started while you were teaching fellows, but if it's part-time, which I assume it was, it takes a minimum of three years to finish. So when you'd gone back into, dare I say, the real clinical world, how did you find balancing uni work with clinical work with having a life outside both of those things?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

So I was fortunate enough to have a clinical development fellow role, I think was what it was called. But I essentially had a day a week to do something of my choosing, and I used that day a week to finish the master's. And I have to be honest, I think I would have struggled to fit that amount of work into otherwise a full-time clinical post.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

So I took a year away from doing master's, it doesn't have to be three consecutive years. Uh I took a year away to get PECS to finish up MRCP and do CT1 because I just moved from Newcastle to Leeds at the time and I didn't want to do a master's alongside that. And I knew that my CT2 jobs were relatively a bit more chill compared to the CT1 jobs. So I thought, okay, that's more of a realistic time to do it. So I then I went on and started it again in CT2, self-funded. And I got to about February of that year and thought, right, okay, I think I'm ready to start collecting data now. And then the pandemic happened. So my cohort, who were all final years at the time, basically all graduated early. There were more important things to do. So I then had to delay everything. And to be honest, I used that time because a lot happened in the pandemic. I used that time to reflect on what I really wanted in my master's, and my master's ended up being a lot different in the end than if that delay hadn't happened. So I actually ended up finishing my master's only last October. So I did it alongside being a dermridge, which was good fun because it was essentially instead of two years of doing just the dissertation, it was about 19, 20 months of procrastinating and then about two months of panicked doing the masters and writing it all up.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Yeah. And I think that's really important to say to anyone who's interested because when it's part-time, you don't have to finish in three years. You can stop and start. And it's just about talking to your university, talking to your supervisors. People know that you're doing a full-time job and you can be very flexible. I think through my experience of just getting ready to submit my dissertation now. My university was very, very accommodating of on calls, of actually I'm getting behind because clinical work is getting too much. And I don't think I fully appreciated that that could happen, having gone from, you know, full-on medical student mode to I'm doing this in my free time with my own money. So, you know, someone needs to also understand where I'm coming from.

SPEAKER_03 16:50

Yeah, that balance is important. There are far more important things in life than masters, and there's far more important things in life than your working careers. You know, there's you've got to make sure you've got a balance with everything. And I guess one of the reasons why we liked the teaching fellow jobs so much is because, you know, there were no on-calls with our jobs. So if you want to do on calls, you could do lookums. That's fine. And it was just a lot more chill. I did my first teaching fellow year after four months of AE, where I just saw no loved ones for four months. It was in the old contract. I did 13 weekends in a row. I was running to the ground and I don't think it was particularly safe either. So by the time that I finished, I was almost ready to quit medicine. But the teaching fella really lifted me up and felt so much more enriching than that particular training post. And it meant that I got time and space to reflect as to what my own priorities were or where I wanted to go in my career and just got to enjoy life a bit more.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And I think having a bit of breathing space from clinical medicine actually then made both of us appreciate and enjoy clinical medicine a bit more when you weren't doing it every single day, you know, all weekends, nights, and etc. Actually coming back from you know a few days or a week of teaching to some time on the wards, I had found my passion for it again, which was really nice.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Definitely. So I guess if we start to wrap things up, but before we do, I want a reflection from both of you on your favorite experience of being a teaching fellow during those two years. And if you had one piece of advice to give to somebody who was thinking about doing a teaching fellow job, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 18:21

I think the most satisfying bit for me was seeing our students pass finals and getting the I'm just gonna say vain, but getting the appreciation and the feedback from them. So much in medicines that you feel like a small cog and a massive machine and you feel like you're not making a difference and you're not really helping people. You don't get a lot of feedback, especially positive feedback because ARCP is so you know mechanistic and so tick boxy. And I feel that getting that positive feedback from the final years, we were so grateful. We went to the grad ball and everything like that. It was great. That was really meaningful. And I guess in terms of advice that I would offer would be just a practical thing is that if you're interested in a specific specialty, look to see if there's a teaching fellow job paired with that specialty. So my second teaching fellow job was my F4 was dermatology one. And that was really the time where I started to build up my CV properly and half the points that I had for my dermatology, the special training post I got in that year. I would also just say as a bonus tip, if you're doing anything in your teaching fellow year, plan to evaluate it, plan to write it up, submit it for conferences and submit it for journals. My first ever original author publication was from my F4 year, and it was about escape rooms that I did with some students, which was zombie themed, and I got that published. So, you know, you can find a publication anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah, definitely. And Rob?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So I think my highlight of the Teaching Fellow Year was those occasional moments where you just saw things click for students. You know, you'd explain something in a slightly different way from they'd had before, and you could just kind of see, you know, a spark behind the eyes, and it was just so satisfying to see. And particularly when we were lucky enough to have a cohort of students for a really significant part of final year and being able to see them develop as adult learners and as clinicians was just so satisfying to see. And it's actually been really nice because I have bumped into a couple of them, you know, as time has passed on, with them working as doctors, and they still remember some of the things we did. And it's just it's really satisfying to see and always brings a smile to my face when I see them and can think about those times.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

What's really cool is that so I'm currently on the faculty of University of Sunderland's Medical Education Masters program. So I'm teaching the masters now, and some of the certificate students are now teaching fellows where we were, and we taught them at Newcastle. So that is really satisfying. It's really cool to see that not only did they get through finals, but then they've taken our place and they'll be teaching other students. So that was lovely symmetry.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah. And I guess thinking about what my advice would be A, is that it's a fantastic opportunity and it's really enjoyable. And it's a great opportunity, not just for your work-life balance, but also for your portfolio and your career. And also just to be able to do something that you feel passionate about and make it a difference to people is brilliant. I guess I would caveat that by saying it is a lot of work, and a lot of that work is sometimes out of hours. You might not be doing on course, but you may well be making presentations and sifting through feedback late at night. So, you know, do think about whether it is the right thing for you. And if it is, spend some time looking at what the opportunities are in the different hospitals and different trusts around you because there are some fantastic opportunities out there that you can really make the most of.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Great. Thank you both. That was really inspiring. I almost regret not doing it now. Um but yeah, here we are. I'm too old to do it now. Well, not too old, but drained in my day-to-day life. So thank you both so much for taking the time to talk to me. And thank you to the listeners for listening to us. You can listen to more careers, conversations, or if you want more clinical updates, you can join our clinical conversations podcasts as well. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Thank you. Thanks very much.