Getting involved in Research (04 Dec 2025)

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Dr Luke Yates (LY): So hello and welcome to this episode of Consultant Conversations, brought to you by the recently Appointed Consultants Committee at the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. My name is Luke Yates. I'm a member of the recently appointed Consultants Committee and a consultant physician in stroke and geriatric medicine in NHS Lanarkshire. This podcast series has been developed to help support early career consultants. And today we're going to be discussing how consultants can be more involved in research. I'm delighted to be joined today by Professor Terry Quinn. Professor Quinn is a professor of cardiovascular ageing and the current David Cargill chair of geriatric medicine at the University of Glasgow. He has a wealth of experience in conducting and authoring original research, supporting research and research methodology. He is National Lead for aging for the National Institute for Health and Care Research and National Lead for ageing for NHS Research Scotland, and he combines all this with his work as a consultant physician in stroke and geriatrics in Glasgow. Professor Quinn, thank you so much for joining me today.

Professor Terry Quinn (TQ): Thank you Luke. Looking forward to chatting about research.

LY: That's exactly what we're going to talk about. The topic of clinical research, and particularly from the perspective of relatively new consultants who may be interested in being more involved in research alongside their clinical commitments. And you're someone who does exactly that. You combine clinical work with your research work. So I wonder if we can start off with a bit of your own story telling me how you got to this position, got involved in research as you are now.

TQ: Very happy to do that, as is every clinical academic, always very happy to talk about themselves. So it's a good place to get started, I guess. Something to say. As for people who maybe aren't actively involved in research, they maybe have a perception that clinical academics are born into the world with a microscope and some advanced knowledge of meta synthesis. And really, that's not the case at all. And it's certainly not the case for me. When I was in medical school and when I started as a junior doctor, I had a ten year career plan that really didn't feature research at all, and just opportunities came along. I guess that's one of the things I want to emphasize is for new consultants in many aspects, but particularly with research, look out for opportunities and when they come along, you know, if they seem interesting to you, do take them. I see lots and lots of things around how to say no and seeing those important, you know, it's important for your mental health. It's important for, you know, having a good work life balance. But sometimes, particularly in the research field, you need to say yes to things that maybe seem a little bit scary because they can really help you and they can add to that really nice portfolio career that I have. So my own background, I started off after junior doctor jobs knew that I wanted to do geriatric medicine and old money. I did what was then senior house officer jobs and I applied to be a registrar. Was told us a bit early for that, and that's when an opportunity came along. An opportunity came along to work in a stroke research department. It was a very clinical pharmacology based research department. So something quite different from me. But, you know, really great learning. And through that I did a higher degree and got the bug for research, went back into training and was fortunate enough to get a little bit of protected time one day a week to try and build an academic CV. And also I took opportunities to go to other places to do some learning there. So I spent some time in University of Oxford. And then I spent some time with the Cochrane Dementia Group. You know, all, you know, within busy clinical training to try and get my skills up. And then I was very fortunate to be given a clinical senior lecturer post at the time of CCTV from the Stroke Association, and I guess everything else just fell from there. So that's my journey. In no way predetermined. That's how life is.

LY: One of the points that prompted me to think this was a good topic to be talking about is recognising the variation in people's experience of research as they become approach becoming consultants. I have certainly worked with people that knew they wanted to be very academic early on in their careers, went down very academic pathways or have done PhDs and, you know, lots of research experience long before they reached the end of their training. But also lots of people like me who are aware of some research, some involvement, supporting it in departments that were doing a lot of it as I went along, but have become a consultant and found myself in a department that's doing lots of research and that is keen for me to be supporting and involved in that. But I'm not coming with an academic background. I appreciate I'm starting with a very broad question here, but that open question for consultants, new consultants who are interested in research or aware of opportunities around them, don't have a lot of experience or familiarity with it. Where's a good place to start? How do you start with, you know, finding out more and making yourself prepared to be more involved?

TQ: I wanted to answer that by taking a step back. And again, one of the things I want to do in this podcast is just challenge some of the stereotypes or misperceptions that people might have. So I think a lot of people would consider being involved in research as being synonymous with having a university post or being heavily involved with the university. That's really not the case at all. And you can always imagine there's a kind of Bactrim of research activity from being someone that's supportive of what's going on but really, you know, isn't particularly turned on by research but will support what's going on through to people that are maybe leading on the trials that are happening within their own hospital, right through to those card carrying clinical academics that maybe do have a university post, and there's room in the world for all of them. I want to just share with you, I went at the beginning of my consulting career. I went on a management course about being a clinical research leader, and we all had to do a thing called the Myers-Briggs personality test. And we were told that there was a certain personality to be a research leader, and it completely wasn't me at all. And actually, it wasn't half the people in the room. And what I took from that is there's no phenotype for being, you know, someone active in research or for being a good researcher. Actually, lots of different skills can help support that whole ecosystem. And I guess when I was first getting into this, in my head, I thought, to be involved in research, you have to be brainy, you have to be bolshie, you have to be busy. But actually, if I look at people who are really important in driving forward the NHS research, they're not always that. I mean, they often are pretty intelligent and they often are busy. But actually the people that really drive things forward are people that have good people skills, people that can work in teams and people that have ideas, people that can think about things and maybe just see beyond the day to day. The NHS. Now I realized, look, I've completely not answered your question there. There's no phenotype. Anyone can get involved in that. But your question was around what can people do? And I think what people need to do is just start talking to the players in the system. So I would recommend assuming that most of the people listening to this are working in hospitals, although you don't have to work in a hospital setting to be involved in research, there will be an RNAi department. I can tell you they will be looking for people who could help them deliver commercial and academic trials. You'll almost find they bite your hand off if you approach them and say that you're interested in supporting research activity. And many hospitals have realized not all of them, but in many hospitals, there will be people who have quite a lot of research activity in their CV and their job plan. They might not necessarily be in your department, but, you know, reach out to them, speak to them. They will then signpost you to the other people within your organization that can help you. And then going a little bit broader than that, if you're really interested in this, there will be people within your respective regions of the UK that can help. So I have the honour and the privilege of being the NIHR lead for ageing. But within each area of NHS England there is a regional lead for ageing and also for all of the other allergies. Our remit is to help support people who want to support research. And if, like you and I look, you're lucky enough to live in Scotland, does NHS Research Scotland and they also have an equivalent scheme and they have people that can help you. So reach out. Start talking to people and they can point you in the right direction.

LY: A really important point you raised that it's not just about universities. And, you know, obviously these are very important networks as well. But I've shared and seen that perspective that it looks like all the researchers have titles like Clinical Lecturer and have had that for ten years, and they all know each other very well. And then, you know, actually looking for more local resource and, you know, people that can support getting you in the right places and understanding what's available locally in terms of, you know, if you're someone who's pursuing getting more involved, they want to learn more about, you know, the topic of research. Are there particular kind of qualifications or learning that's really quite important to get your foot in that door and have. So you're in a position to start?

TQ: Those formal and informal learning. And I think I probably learned a lot of what I know about research just through osmosis and through getting involved. That's always one good way to learn, but you can complement that with more formal schemes. And I guess you don't want to boil the ocean if you don't have a background in research. Don't go into this thinking. I immediately want to run lots of clinical trials. You build things up a little bit in the same way that you would if you were setting up a new clinical service, you wouldn't immediately just start it and expect to be running the show. You know, you'd build it up slowly. If I can signpost to a few things that I think are useful. F as part of your research support, you're thinking about clinical trials. And that's not all of research, but it is a large part of it. It's useful to have done good clinical practice, which is an online course free on the NHS. Takes around an afternoon, but that then, is a certificate that you have that allows you to be involved in the delivery of clinical trials, particularly clinical trials of medicines. The colleges have schemes that NIHR have a lot of online training and that begins right through the career. So I know this podcast is about new consultants, but there might be people listening who are, you know, in the senior phases of their training. And there are schemes like associate Pi run by the NIHR, that allow you to become immersed in research in a very supportive way, so that when you do get CBT, you're ready to become what we call a principal investigator, a leader of research within the hospital that you work in. Again, you know, lots of opportunities there, lots of places to get training to find out more. I think going back to what I said before, reach out to people that are already doing it. Probably the most important thing you can have is someone that's a bit of a mentor for research, that can just guide you through and signpost you to where the useful things are.

LY: I think it's worth me mentioning something I found helpful. The Royal College of Physicians, Edinburgh, does a course, the systematic Review and Meta Analysis course, and I know you've taught on the faculty of that previously. It tends to be on most years, so I expect it will run again. I did that towards the end of my training, shortly before I became a consultant, and I did find that very helpful. And as you say, there's lots of online resources that probably isn't necessary to go and do all of them. But the NIHR website, their learn pages have a lot of sort of intro to research into Intro to Evidence, and the Cochrane website has some really good resources as well for people trying to learn and get more familiar with the terminology and the words and everything that's used. Sometimes when you read these things, they do look like they're pitching for a kind of catching people in the early career, getting people involved early. But, you know, just to reinforce the point that we're covering here, you're not saying it's too late to get involved. If you're already a consultant, you're already in clinical work.

TQ: Absolutely. It's never too late. And one of the things that I really want to promote is for clinicians to realize the value they bring to research. So again, if you maybe haven't had a career where to date you've been involved in a lot of things, you might think, well, you know, what can I offer? And actually you can offer loads. And it's one of the things you realize as you work more with commercial companies is how much they value just the insight and the knowledge you have as a clinician and all the other bits, the jargon of research and you know how to support research, all of that stuff you can learn. But it's on the background of being a really good NHS clinical consultant. So, you know, there's no time That's too late. I don't want anyone listening to this podcast who is potentially interested to think, oh well, I've got nothing to offer. Because actually, just by virtue of knowing your craft, knowing your specialty, knowing how the NHS works, you've got huge amounts to offer.

LY: I know we've talked about this topic in the past ourselves. Informally. You've often described things as there are those that find research and interest. They want that to be a regular part of their week, but also a lot of consultants who maybe are more peripherally involved or kind of recognise they could be doing more to support it without necessarily wanting to pursue it as, as a sort of interest that will kind of be a big part of their job plan or similar. And I think, you know, knowing these resources are out there, knowing that it's valued by colleagues and by the NHS, to even have a supporting kind of view on things and be familiar with what's happening locally is such a valuable thing for consultants to be engaged with and doing. We touched a bit on kind of mindset and personalities and that. But for people that are thinking is this, is this for me? Is this something I want to pursue? What do you say to people when they say, what makes a good researcher? What do I need to be? Is this my sort of thing? What do I enjoy or will I enjoy about this?

TQ: I get it, I still work fifty percent NHS and I know the reality of the NHS right now. And you know how difficult it is, how stretched it is, and how challenging it can be to even think about doing something other than the day to day service delivery. That just seems to be a time vacuum and take up all of your time. So I guess what I want to do is two things. I'm going to do a little bit of a pitch and I make no apologies for that. And then I want to just see where I think the benefits are. We aren't doing it on this podcast, but sometimes when people talk about research, they consider it as other. You know, it's a thing that exists in isolation to the real work, which is clinical work. And that's a mindset that we need to challenge, and that the GMC and the colleges and the NIH are all trying to challenge that and show that research really is core to what the NHS does, and it's not niche at all. There was a report from NIHR that came out this year, and it showed it was ten thousand frontline research staff in the NHS. And you're looking just in terms of numbers. More than a million people took part in research last year and that's over four and a half thousand studies. So, you know, not not a niche part of the NHS at all. And by being involved in research, obviously you're creating new knowledge that improves care, but you're also doing things like allowing access to treatments, you know, particularly in fields like oncology. That's how you get access to the new treatments. People are probably aware of that. They're maybe not aware of some of the other benefits that come with research. So Research stimulates the economy. And, you know, there's a budget coming up. I think we're all aware that the economy needs a little bit of stimulation. Again, this is data from the NIHR. They show that for every pound invested in clinical research, thirteen is returned to the economy. That's good value. And then the other thing is by being involved in research, you're actually supporting the whole NHS ecosystem around you. So there's a fact that's bandied about a lot. Those trusts or those health boards that are actively involved in research have five percent lower mortality than the trusts that aren't actively involved in research. Now, if you're an academic, you immediately say, well, that's all confounding, and that could be true, but I'm just going to go with those absolute figures five percent lower mortality. So that's my pitch. That's my pitch about all of the system's benefits. If I was being selfish and I thought, well, what are the benefits for me or what are the benefits for someone thinking about this? Something you and I have spoke about before is I think all NHS clinicians need another thing in their life. You know, just purely doing NHS service, it's very rewarding. But you need another thing and that thing can be education teaching, it can be management, it can be being involved with the colleges or it could be research. But you really do need something that sits alongside your clinical practice. It's shown time and time again that being involved in research, it improves your job satisfaction and it reduces burnout. And let's be honest, it helps your CV. So it helps with career progression. It helps with things like merit awards, distinctions, you know, whatever is applicable where you work. So there are benefits to the whole world, but there are benefits for you as well.

LY: Absolutely. And following up on some of what you've said there, when I was researching for doing this together. There's been some pretty high level statements from national organizations about how integral research is to the NHS work. Certainly, the Royal Colleges of Physicians and the NIHR put out a statement a couple of years ago which was called Making Research Everybody's Business. Previously, the Scottish Royal Colleges of Physicians and the Academy, the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges and Faculties in Scotland have sort of contributing to things like the twenty twenty vision for Healthcare in Scotland have stressed the importance of research. But something else comes out in these statements, and I think this leads nicely into what we also a lot of people want to talk about. There's good census data on this. People are interested in research. People recognise the importance of research. Most doctors say the thing that's holding them back from being more involved is time. Getting time to do it and needing ring fence time to do it. And alongside that, of course, comes the question of funding. Both funding for time and then maybe the broader question of You know how there's a research idea gets funded. Now, obviously that latter topic is a very big question to cover in a podcast. Do you have any high level tips or suggestions? When people are thinking, I'd love to do more research, I have no time to do it. Where do I even start asking?

TQ: Yeah, it's a really good question. I'm not naive to the fact that there can be good intention, but if you don't have ring fenced time in a job plan, it's difficult to deliver on that. So I guess we're talking about money, and it's a difficult time to talk about money because the NHS is on its knees. The universities, there's a sector wide financial crisis and the charities that fund research are also in a very bad place. So, you know, there's not a lot of money about, but it doesn't mean that there's no money about. And often if you are enthusiastic about this, money can be found and it's about just, you know, exploring opportunities. So if I go through just some of the ways Work that we are doing in the work that's happening in NHS Research Scotland is about trying to get research activity recognised as direct clinical activity in job plans. That's an ongoing conversation. But, you know, there are some disciplines that have made some progress in that. And I think that's a real step in the right direction and hopefully we'll see more of that. Funders of research. So the charities and ukri, MRC, places like that, they recognise the value of clinicians contributing to research. So there are schemes that will fund some of your time. And there are specific schemes for people who are consultants that have never done research, and there are schemes for those people who maybe did some research early in their training and then have kind of left that to one side because they wanted to focus on upskilling as an NHS consultant for them to come back. Those schemes there as well through NIHR and through NHS Research Scotland. There are also some schemes that will buy some of your time. These schemes have different names and their dynamics are changing all the time, but they're out there. So for example, NHS Research Scotland has a scheme that will buy one or two sessions. The quid pro quo is you need to use those sessions to support some of the activity that's happening in your hospital, but it also gives you time to start to develop your own ideas. And then there's always and this is something that we're much more aware of now following things like the O'Shaughnessy report does the income that comes from commercial trial activity very attractive to hospitals? And if you're willing to support commercial trial activity, you can find you can get to a place that that money that you generate through that can then be used to start to buy some of your time. So there are options there. They're not always easy to find, but if you're enthusiastic, there are ways that you can start to ring fence some time to support research.

LY: It occurs to me listening to that. Do you think it's easier to go into this looking at I want to be involved in whatever research is going on locally in a sort of broad sense, or to have actually, there's these trials I know of that are going to be opening. I'd like to do this. This is my specialty area. Do you think it matters? Is one easier than the other?

TQ: If you're starting out on this, you want to be involved in the research that's important to you. There is work attached to this. I'm trying to not use jargon because I realize research can be quite jargonistic. If you're going to be a Pi, a principal investigator. So the person that leads a particular study and your site then does work attached to that, and you know, there's form filling and you know, there's admin and all these things attached to it. So you need to feel enthusiastic about the study you're supporting. And again, I would just go back to NHS England. The RDA in Scotland, NHS Research Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own schemes. They have people within each of the disciplines, within each of the ologies that are coordinating research in the region that you work in, and they can tell you the high profile studies that are looking for new sites or that maybe already have a site but have stalled because they've got no one supporting them. That's the conversation I would have. And there's often a bit of a catalogue of studies that are available, and you can choose the one that you find most interesting, and it suits the skills mix that you have and the skills mix in your team.

LY: Certainly speaking to colleagues about this, I mean, this seems a lot of variation as to exactly how people different set up in different sites and different parts of the country in terms of people have the time and the resources that they get for being involved in research. But stressing again, research and development departments in hospitals, in health boards, research does bring in a number of benefits. There's a lot you can make to sell your case. We talked a little bit about. Obviously there's funding for certain trials, particularly if you are a principal investigator, but it also brings certain resources into your clinical practice. We've seen that in some stroke trials that have been in certainly my local departments, it's brought some access to bits of equipment. In other specialties, it might be about access to current cutting edge medications and things like that. And generally it's often considered a priority of an organization. When you look at what you know, health boards describe as their priorities. They talk about research. They like the profile it brings. So there's a lot you can make to bolster your case about having some time in your job plan to do this. We were talking before about I know colleagues that have been involved in things like the NIH, our green sheets. I think some of the names are changing. So when you Google this, there are a lot of names out there and I think things evolve. But it sounds like your advice would be to find someone like the area lead and take their advice on what's current and what's coming forward.

TQ: That's absolutely what to do because it's such a dynamic space, much more so maybe than you might be used to in other aspects of the NHS. That research space is changing all the time. Nationally, a couple of years ago we had a clinical research network and now we have something different. We have a research delivery network in RDM. The RDA just released their vision for the next decade and it's worth having a look at that. Actually it's online. But with that change, it means the names of schemes and the details of schemes are always in a bit of a dynamic state of flux. But there are schemes there. It's finding someone that has a bit of a roadmap for you, and that can point you in the direction of things that are going to be most useful.

LY: So one of the other questions that kind of comes out of this, it's all on a similar line, but we're talking about this, about getting involved in research, existing trials in general terms. Sometimes people have an idea. They've seen something they've observed, something they really want to know. How would I even take this forward? Perhaps you wouldn't recommend that as a starting position for research. But some people do blaze trails and, you know, that is how they start with an idea and trying to create their own trial. Do you have any thoughts or tips on where people start if they've got, say, an observation, something in clinical practice that they think this could be something we should do more research on?

TQ: I mean, here's one of my biases. I think the very best clinical research questions come from clinical practice. You know, when you're on the ward round and you think, why am I doing this? Is this helpful? Surely we can do it better. Those are the questions that lead to then practice changing research and practice changing trials. And again, you don't need to be in the ivory tower of the university to have those ideas. If anything, it's better if you're immersed in the reality of the NHS. So how do you go from from the question to the study, you mentioned the course that the Edinburgh College run around systematic review. A good thing to do is just check. Has this already been answered? Because you'd be surprised how many things the research is out there just hasn't been implemented yet. So, you know, working with an NHS librarian, having a look to see, you know, this idea that I have, you know, do we actually already know the answer? If you don't, then you're in a good place to start doing things about it. And there's various ways you can do that. There are commissioned calls from major funders, and there are routes into giving them suggestions for what those commissioned calls should be. I'm going to sound like a broken record here. I enter, that is through liaising with your regional lead through the RDA, and then they can connect you to national bodies, different disciplines. From time to time. You might see research prioritisation exercises often led by the James Lind Alliance. So there was one in stroke a couple of years ago. There was one in dementia a couple of years ago. Engage with those things. That's another way of getting ideas out there and seeing if they land with other people. And I guess if you're in a place where there are links with the university, this is where you want to start speaking to those academics. You've got the ideas that they've got, the connections and the ability to take that and work it up as a grant, a grant that you can still be part of and then see that going forward. So various ways. I really would encourage people, if they have an idea, to look, to see if there are routes they can take to try and realise that idea.

LY: I'm really glad you mentioned librarians there because I think they're a very underused resource. A lot of NHS hospitals have libraries. The librarians can be brilliant at helping gather resources, systematically review what's already done. And obviously in Scotland we have the Knowledge Network Scotland, which I think is over twenty years old now and has access to a lot of resources through Openathens and librarians can be really good at helping to understand that and what's available and how to use it as well. So these are resources worth making more use of. I think a lot of people don't necessarily realize how helpful they can be and how available they are. Great. So we've covered a lot today already. This was really helpful. So thank you very much, Professor Quinn. I suppose sort of wrap things up. Do you have any sort of pointers or suggestions for further reading or things to point towards? Of interest to anyone that's heard this and gone? Actually, I do want to think some more about this. I'll look into it.

TQ: Yeah, I guess for those people who haven't been fully persuaded, but they still want to support, there are things that they can do. So talk about research that NIH has launched a flagship program called Be Part of Research. And it's encouraging the public, but particularly people living with long term conditions, to register an interest in research. And when you're seeing patients in clinic or in the wards, you can just mention to them, you know, are you interested in research? There might not be a thing right now, but if you register with be part of research, you will get connected with things. Also, if you're maybe not thinking, I want to be directly involved, but I am keen to support find out about some of the studies that are running and if you see people that might be eligible, just give your local Pi a nod on the shoulder and tell them. And I'm sure they'll be very, very grateful for that. In terms of further reading, I mentioned good clinical practice. It is worth spending an afternoon going through good clinical practice. Getting the certificate is a bullet point on your CV, but it does open up doors to allow you to be part of clinical trials, particularly clinical trials of medicines. I mentioned before the new strategic plan. Definitely worth having a look at that just to see how the whole UK is thinking about clinical research. I feel like we keep coming back to the same ideas, but I think I make no apologies for that because they're important. Speak to your local leaders. Speak to people in your hospital that are involved in research. Find out how they did it and then they can help you do the same.

LY: Absolutely. And that's in many ways the situation I found myself in with. I've joined a department that's got trials ongoing, you know, new ones coming online and was encouraged to be aware, to be looking out for people that were suitable for recruitment, to have my good clinical practice so that I can be, you know, doing that and can expand from there if I choose to be more and more involved. But even having that level of involvement is enjoyable and helping the department and the team.

TQ: I know you want to wrap up. I think the enjoyment bit sometimes people forget about. It's actually quite good fun being part of research. And let's be honest, look, there are some bits of the NHS job aren't so fun at the moment. That enjoyment and that discovery and that ability, you know, being part of research really allows you to keep up to date with the real cutting edge of what's happening. Good stuff. Yeah, think about it. People.

LY: Agreed. Well, if we have convinced people or made people more interested from the Royal College of Physicians, Edinburgh point of view, I should do one last plug, which is there is a half day course in March next year called bridging NHS care with Curiosity Clinical Research Unplugged, exploring a bit more about research opportunities. The details are available on the college website, and hopefully some of the resources and things we've talked about today are helpful for anyone interested in this topic. So I'll finish by saying thank you very much to Professor Quinn and wish everybody with an interest, a successful journey into being more involved in research in the NHS.

TQ: Thank you very much. Thanks everyone.

Are you a new consultant trying to settle into your new post C-suite role? Are you trying to get to grips with your job plan? remember how many hours of CPD you need or plan your first education supervision meeting, even if you're not. Sometimes it can be difficult adjusting to a new role. The great news is that you're not alone. You probably have a colleague in your hospital who did all of this just last year, or maybe even the year before. Go and ask them about it. Buy them a coffee. Go on. Either way, the recently appointed Consultants Committee at the Rcgp have compiled a top tips guide for recently appointed consultants. This is a compilation of all of the advice we wish that we'd had when we started. You can find the top tips for recently appointed consultants at Rcgp UK. Top tips. We hope it helps. Okay, the next coffee is definitely on you.