Conflict Resolution (2 Nov 2023)

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Consultant Conversations brought to you by the recently appointed Consultants Committee at the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. This podcast has been developed to support early years consultants with some of the more challenging, non-clinical aspects of their work. Today I'll be discussing coping with and managing conflict in the workplace with Chris Breden. Chris is an RAF officer with a career spanning 40 years. He has completed five tours of duty in Afghanistan. His current role is as the squadron uncle, providing continuity to a busy RAF squadron, as well as mentorship, support and coaching. He also works as a third-party mediator and trainer and owns Prospero Professional Solutions, a conflict management business that specialises in managing and mediating workplace conflict. Welcome to this podcast, Chris Breedham.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Hi, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

So I just wondered for our listeners whether you could just expand a little bit on your career to date and your experience of conflict within the area.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Oh wow. How long have you got? 40 years. So I joined in 1984 and I've just done the standard tour. When I joined, it was 103,000 of us. So I've been up and down the east coast of Britain to the Falklands to Norway, punctuated in between by various sort of tours in various places. And like you said earlier, five tours in Afghanistan. So in terms of proper conflict, that's where I got that from in Afghanistan with monotonous regularity. But in terms of personal conflict, I suppose it's a continuous thing, really. It happens continuously, but in a way that we didn't recognise it 40 years ago. Forty years ago, you were basically just told to shut up and get on with it. And that's how it was. Whereas now people have evolved in their management of people and leadership, perhaps, and recognize just the old get on with it approach. Doesn't always work, doesn't give you the best results, and it doesn't produce the best morale that you might be looking for, perhaps. And of course, people change. The generation that you're dealing with now is an old man looking down at all the new people joining. You realize that they're very different from you. They've had a very different lived experience, and the shut up and get on with it doesn't work for them particularly well. So you have to evolve. Conflict is a continuous thing, it's an inevitable thing between people. It happens all of the time. It's just how you deal with it and how it manifests itself that changes.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah. And I suppose a lot of us can feel quite uncomfortable when we're in conflict scenarios, but I suppose it can be helpful just to hear that it's potentially more commonplace than we originally think.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Yeah. I would go as far to say that every day somebody that is working for you or with you is in conflict either with somebody else that works for you or somebody further afield or even with you. It's how you recognise and acknowledge that and deal with it that is key.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah. And so when we're thinking about the workplaces you've been in and when you are supporting people in your professional role, are there any common themes that you find when you find conflict in the workplace?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I wouldn't say there's a common theme other than perhaps people are initially reluctant to bring it to somebody else's attention. Perhaps that's because people view the reporting they're having an issue with somebody else in the team, perhaps, might be seen as a weakness. And that probably is the most common theme I'd pick up across all of the stuff I've dealt with. But as for a particular theme that might arise or give rise to conflict, no, it's anything and everything. There's no particular one subject area, let's say, that jumps out. There's an underlying theme that I recognise and a sort of theory that I work to. There is some thing called the scarf drivers. You can look up S-C-A-R-F, look it up on Google, and it tells you what each of those are and how they drive a person to conflict. I won't cover all of them, but the first one, for instance, is status. So somebody who might feel that their status is being eroded by something they've been asked to do or by something somebody has done. So suddenly they feel they're being undermined or personally attacked or losing a bit of credibility in front of other people. You know, oh I thought you wanted me to do this, and then I found out yesterday that you went and asked Addy to do it. So you've sort of undermined me. And I thought I was responsible for this. There are each of these little drivers that get that little knot in somebody's belly that drives them down the route to a confrontation. It's not a new theory, but it's not one that's often spoken about. So they're the sort of things that I think drive people towards conflict. Other people will term them, especially in the mediation world, term them as sort of like positions, interests, and needs. Scarf drivers are just a different way of doing that, but exploring it a little bit more deeply and a little bit more widely from what it is, what your position is, what your interests are, and what you need out of this confrontation. It's a little bit deeper than that. And if you understand how those scarf drivers impact a person, it initially then helps you understand where they're coming from and then potentially how you can change the situation or help them out to resolve the conflict.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

That's really interesting. I've never actually heard of scarf drivers. Would you be able to just briefly elaborate on the other aspects of that?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

So it's status, which we just covered, certainty. So perhaps you're in a workplace where you hear a rumour that they're going to make 10% of the workforce redundant, and suddenly you start, oh wow, if I get made redundant, I've got a mortgage to pay, I'll lose my house, I won't get another job. I'm 61 years of age, how am I going to get another job somewhere? So suddenly the certainty that you had yesterday has now been taken away from you, and it starts to drive you to worry, see perhaps your colleagues in a different light, and suddenly they were your colleagues yesterday, but now they're a threat to your position. Autonomy was what A stands for. You want to have some control over where you're going and what you're doing. And if you suddenly feel that as a manager you've been ticking along really nicely, and then you get a new boss, they're double-checking everything you're doing, they're micromanaging you a bit, you've not been used to this, you've been perfectly trusted, and it starts to undermine how you feel you're being looked at, as opposed to potentially interpreting that you've got a new boss, and all they're really trying to do is to understand what it is you do rather than supervise your output. Our stands for relatedness in that you suddenly find yourself feeling that you're now outside of the team, you're not being included. Maybe in that redundancy example, you might hear a rumour that they're looking at getting rid of the older part of the workforce, or people who haven't done a particular qualification, something like that, or people who don't have experience in a particular field, and you start asking yourselves questions and you start believing that you're not being included. Suddenly the boss walks in, takes the three other managers for a coffee, and you're left in your office going, I'm the one that's going to be made redundant. He's just taking those three people away for a coffee. They're all talking about me. And fairness is the F. So you get a sense that you're not being treated like other people. It's not fair. I don't see why I should be the person made redundant. I've worked here 40 years, I've got loads of experience, and you're replacing me with a college graduate with no experience. People want to feel that they're being treated fairly. People view all of those five things from the sculpt drivers as threats to them on a sort of unconscious level. And that's what drives most of this, the sort of unconscious level that gets people into a conflict. More so than somebody coming in a bulletin a china shop and you're having a real big stand-up row about something. Normally, when people have got to that stage where they've had a big stand-up brow in the office, that is over the straw that broke the camel's back. And this conflict has been simmering potentially on an unconscious level. We've all done it. We've all sat in a place working quite hard, being quite happy with our scarf drivers on a subconscious level. Something changes, and then we go home and give our partner the whole nine yards about how rubbish the day has been. And you're looking at it in that respect. And then eventually you explode as that last line is crossed.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah. Thank you. I think that's actually really helpful to understand a bit of a framework. And I suppose for our listeners, if they are feeling that they are in a position of conflict to actually reflect which of these drivers are at play at the moment. And I think actually thinking about the NHS as the workplace, where we have a system where there is hierarchy. So people do have a feeling of status and may have occasions where they feel that that is threatened. I think change in the NHS is ever perpetual. So that uncertainty can be felt, I think, by all of us day to day as things change, as the political climate change, as the goalposts change all the time. So I think that that's really relatable and will be relatable for many of our listeners within and outside the NHS. And I agree that feeling of relatedness, feeling part of the team, and what do we do to make sure that everybody is included, especially when everyone has really busy working lives, and we can't all go down to the pub as a big group after work because people have to rush off and pick up children or have caring responsibilities. And what do you do in order to keep that team cohesiveness? So actually, looking at those drivers, I do feel back to your first point, actually, we probably do feel maybe on a subconscious level that there is some conflict within the workplace every day. I was quite surprised when you first said that, but I'm actually now I'm understanding more, I can see how that is at play every day. And I suppose when we think about humans, we're fairly attuned to threat. Would you say that that's true more so than positive affirmation?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, absolutely. I think if you take down to its base level, and we do a lot of talk in the sort of mediation conflict world about the sort of amygdala attack and amygdala hijacks. You know, when you get that burst of adrenaline, and you'll know more about this than me, but you get that burst of adrenaline that takes away all the blood sugar, which takes it away from your frontal cortex, which means your power of rational thought goes out the window and you're running on instinct then. And that's an instinct that we haven't evolved out of. So we built this huge world and environment around us, but in terms of proper biological evolution, you know, we're still 60,000 years ago and operating on that sort of instinct. So you're more attuned to watch out for threats in any way that that might present itself than you are for looking for reward. Because you can generally get by without reward necessarily for a period of time, but you won't get by if somebody comes and you know eats you up.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, no, absolutely. It's kind of about human evolution and the fact that we generally tend to constantly scan for threats because actually that's what kept us alive way back when we lived in a different time. So we've talked about conflict and you've talked about a model in terms of understanding drivers for conflict. What impact have you seen a conflict have on people?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

All sorts really. The biggest impact, I think, that that's probably the most common as well, is the level of stress that that people go under once they're in that sort of conflict cycle. And the longer they keep that to themselves and don't sort of search for advice and help or report the issue, the more stressful that becomes. And then probably for a degree when you do report the issue, or let's say somebody's reported you for something that they think you've done, and then you've got an internal investigation going on, the level of stress involved in that is massive. And so one of the drivers for me as a mediator, both in the RAF and in my own business, is once we get to the process of appointing a mediator to try and sort those issues out, is to get it done as quickly as possible, because it's the stress that is the biggest important with all the associated issues with that in terms of health, etc. What I tend to find, especially if a conflict's been going on for quite a long time, is at least one of the parties is off long-term stress, sick, etc., just for the toll that's been taken on them. Yeah, so outside the stress field, then of course you've got the impact on their productivity. No matter what you're doing, people who are under some sort of conflict issue, their productivity goes considerably through the floor. Some of them might become completely ineffective at work because they're constantly thinking about what is going on in terms of the conflict. Then there's the wider aspect. You've got two people in your team that are in conflict with each other. It tends to take the morale of the rest of the team down, especially if it's been going on for a little while. It's just a natural thing that parties in conflict will try and get the other people in the team on their side. And it's very difficult to remain neutral when two of your colleagues are going at it. It's very difficult. And then you'll look across and you'll see that you think that somebody in your team is taking the other person's side, that gives you more stress, affection morale, etc. So the impact overall on the organization can be huge, even though the actual cause of the conflict itself might be relatively small.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah. So the wider impact, not just on the individuals in conflict, but kind of, I suppose, the wider team and organization as well. So if, for example, you were a new consultant or you were speaking to somebody who was, say, a new consultant in the NHS who found themselves in conflict, what advice would you give that person initially?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

So if you're talking in terms of they themselves are in conflict with somebody junior.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Either somebody junior or maybe a colleague.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

The easiest thing to do is to look at a thing that's called the Batari box. It's probably the most simple model of conflict. If you imagine a square has got four corners, but essentially you do something that affects my behavior. So you do something that upsets me, and then I'm conditioned to automatically retaliate, let's say, in a way that affects your behavior. So you do something that upsets me, I respond by doing something that upsets you, you respond by further upsetting me, I respond, and we get ourselves in that spiral, and we get ourselves in that spiral really quickly. So if you're in conflict with somebody, I would say take a deep breath, count to ten, step back and think about the Batari box. What did they do or say that pressed my button? Do I think they did it deliberately to get a reaction? Or have they just said something inadvertently that just pressed my button? And then was my response appropriate, or did I just do it to retaliate? Ask yourself those questions and be brutally honest with yourself. If you could be brutally honest and say, nope, I didn't retaliate, then think back what is it that potentially I might have done to elicit that response out of that person? And there are all sorts of ways. You get the two people, you've seen the diagram where one person sat there, you've got the number nine in between them. One person sees a six, you see a nine, I'm the third party looking at from a different angle, and I see the letter B. All three of us are seeing the same set of facts. All three of us are seeing something completely different, and all three of us are correct. And as far as we're concerned, the other two people are wrong. What you need to do is swap seats and move around the circle and go, all right, looking at it from this side, I see it's a six. And I thought all along it was a nine. Try and give yourself a sort of journey of inference. I walked past that person in the corridor and said good morning, and they ignored me. Now, did they ignore me or did they not hear me? Or if they did ignore me, why might that be? Might they have had something on their mind, might they be in a different place as they're going down that corridor? We've all done it, we've all walked from A to B without all recognizing well, driving. You know, you drive home, you realize that how did I get here? You've done it automatically. Think about what might have motivated that person to behave like that and have you interpreted it correctly. So give yourself a chance to give the other person a chance. And then once you've done that, maybe go and speak to a neutral third party and see what they have to say before you tackle the other person, especially if the other person is junior to you. And then how you tackle those other people, I would say we'll definitely look at a third party's advice. And you must have conflict managers, etc. And the other thing is to do some conflict management training. Understand there are five different reactions to conflict. Every person is different on how we deal with conflict. If you're a bit like me, I'm quite head-on in your face. I will quite happily have a big argument and not compromise. When you're aware of what your approach to conflict is, then you can realise that if I'm dealing the way I deal with conflict against somebody who's quite withdrawn and tries to avoid conflict, I'm always going to win that conflict as far as I'm concerned. But that other person deals with conflict in a completely different way. And if you understand how people approach conflict, then it helps you understand how to do it properly without making it a conflict, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, that's helpful. So I suppose realize that you may feel you're very right right now, but it might be that you're just not necessarily looking at the problem the same way other people are, because actually you all come from different backgrounds, different experience, and actually that diversity within a team is helpful for the best running of the team. If you all see nines, then you'll never see the B, I suppose. So maybe changing your mindset and valuing that, and then just being aware of how you are responding to conflict and how that might impact other people.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yep, absolutely. Be aware of your own limitations, be aware that other people don't approach conflict to maybe the way that you do. Think about what drives people in the conflict, give them the benefit of the doubt, and try and see things as much as you can from their point of view, having stepped back and gone, well, I've interpreted it this way. If there was somebody looking down on us, what would they be seeing?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah, no, I think that's really helpful. What happens if you get scenarios where conflict really can't be resolved? And when would you advise people to consider whistleblowing?

SPEAKER_00 18:40

I wouldn't say conflict can't be resolved. In the normal run of things, I'd go for mediation with importantly a neutral mediator, somebody that both parties are going to see as being completely neutral. I'm not a fan of internal mediation processes run by HR, etc. Get somebody in from the outside, completely neutral. For whistleblowing, I think when you know inside, when your integrity tells you this is wrong, this can't go on, I've tried talking about it, no one is listening. I've had a sounding board with some other colleagues, perhaps, who also know that what I'm seeing, how I'm seeing it is right. I think it's when you have that battle inside that if you stay quiet, perhaps they say in your profession, you stay quiet and people are gonna die because there's a process that is not correct or somebody just needs more training, then your integrity should drive you and listen to your integrity. And when that inner voice says, this is wrong, and I've tried everything else to get it changed, that's when you should go for it. Easier said than done, I acknowledge.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think as much as whistleblowers often do a significant service to patients, it can come at significant personal cost. Not to say that that's not an avenue to go down, but I suppose it is that gut-wrenching feeling of integrity and knowing that something's wrong and that you've tried many different ways to change it, but you can't, or people willfully not listening or willfully ignoring it. So thank you, Chris, for that summary of ways in which to identify conflict and to manage conflict and manage yourself during conflict. I think that'll be really helpful to our listeners. Just before we go, do you have any final pearls of wisdom to support or help somebody who finds themselves in a difficult situation at work?

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Absolutely. If you find yourself in any form of conflict, my best form of advice would be go and speak to a neutral third party. Certainly in the Air Force, we have things called DNI advisors. Now, not all conflict revolves around DNI, but they're all versed in listening to you, finding out what the issue is, and then giving you some signposting as to where else you can go for help. But certainly seek help from somebody in your organization that can help you. That might well be somebody in HR, etc., and seek to resolve it as quickly as you can at the lowest possible level. Not all conflict, in fact, the vast majority of conflict doesn't need investigating or any formal processes, just the ability for the two people to sit down, sometimes as easily as over a coffee in a coffee shop in a neutral place and talk about it being both open to the other person's point of view. So it should be something just as easy as sitting down and saying something like, the other day in the coffee bar, you said this. I found that really upsetting because and the impact on me has been I felt a little bit underconfident at work, a bit worried about coming in and what's going to happen today. And I just like to chat to you about what the issue is and what's going on in an effort to try and resolve it informally. So always go informal first. Doesn't always work. And outside of that, then I would definitely use an external mediator to try and solve your problems for you. The mediator doesn't solve your problem. They'll sit down with you and the other party and they'll help you resolve the situation itself. That works in workplace conflict a good 95-98% of the time. So definitely don't fester and definitely go and seek some help from people that are available to you.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Well, thank you very much, Chris Breden, for all of your insights today. I think that this will resonate with many of our listeners and actually be really helpful to help them manage their emotions and their feelings during conflict and give them practical steps in finding solutions to that. So thank you very much for your time today. It's really appreciated.